For open debate.
Below are two snippets from two different articles. They deal with Keith Ellisons intent so take his congressional oaths on the Quran. I have linked the full articles for your convenience.
Prager argues that to allow Ellison to swear upon the Quran would be an affront to the American republic:
"He should not be allowed to do so -- not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American civilization.
First, it is an act of hubris that perfectly exemplifies multiculturalist activism -- my culture trumps America's culture. What Ellison and his Muslim and leftist supporters are saying is that it is of no consequence what America holds as its holiest book; all that matters is what any individual holds to be his holiest book.
Forgive me, but America should not give a hoot what Keith Ellison's favorite book is. Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible. If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress. In your personal life, we will fight for your right to prefer any other book. We will even fight for your right to publish cartoons mocking our Bible. But, Mr. Ellison, America, not you, decides on what book its public servants take their oath. "
Volokh counters, however:
" This argument both mistakes the purpose of the oath, and misunderstands the Constitution. In fact, it calls for the violation of some of the Constitution’s multiculturalist provisions.
To begin with, the oath is a religious ritual, both in its origins and its use by the devout today. The oath invokes God as a witness to one’s promise, as a means of making the promise more weighty on the oathtaker’s conscience.
This is why, for instance, the Federal Rules of Evidence, dealing with the related subject of the courtroom oath, state, “Before testifying, every witness shall be required to declare that the witness will testify truthfully, by oath or affirmation administered in a form calculated to awaken the witness’ conscience and impress the witness’ mind with the duty to do so.” If you want the oath to be maximally effective, then it is indeed entirely true that “all that matters is what any individual holds to be his holiest book.” That book is the one that will most impress the oathtaker’s mind with the duty to comply with the oath. "
Now, I've read a lot of Praegers stuff a lot lately (thanks to MT's blog) and he is off base on almost everything he writes, in my nowhere near humble opinion. He is equally off base here. To ask me to swear on a bible would be equally akin to me asking you to consecrate your home with Mjolnir. The bible holds absolutely no reverence or importance to me. Just as I would not expect you to hold Mjolnir in any form of reverence or holiness if you were a christian. As I have said many many times before, faith is personal. You cannot force anyone to believe or not believe the way you do. I would love to hear other opinions on this subject.
V
Prager argues that to allow Ellison to swear upon the Quran would be an affront to the American republic:
"He should not be allowed to do so -- not because of any American hostility to the Koran, but because the act undermines American civilization.
First, it is an act of hubris that perfectly exemplifies multiculturalist activism -- my culture trumps America's culture. What Ellison and his Muslim and leftist supporters are saying is that it is of no consequence what America holds as its holiest book; all that matters is what any individual holds to be his holiest book.
Forgive me, but America should not give a hoot what Keith Ellison's favorite book is. Insofar as a member of Congress taking an oath to serve America and uphold its values is concerned, America is interested in only one book, the Bible. If you are incapable of taking an oath on that book, don't serve in Congress. In your personal life, we will fight for your right to prefer any other book. We will even fight for your right to publish cartoons mocking our Bible. But, Mr. Ellison, America, not you, decides on what book its public servants take their oath. "
Volokh counters, however:
" This argument both mistakes the purpose of the oath, and misunderstands the Constitution. In fact, it calls for the violation of some of the Constitution’s multiculturalist provisions.
To begin with, the oath is a religious ritual, both in its origins and its use by the devout today. The oath invokes God as a witness to one’s promise, as a means of making the promise more weighty on the oathtaker’s conscience.
This is why, for instance, the Federal Rules of Evidence, dealing with the related subject of the courtroom oath, state, “Before testifying, every witness shall be required to declare that the witness will testify truthfully, by oath or affirmation administered in a form calculated to awaken the witness’ conscience and impress the witness’ mind with the duty to do so.” If you want the oath to be maximally effective, then it is indeed entirely true that “all that matters is what any individual holds to be his holiest book.” That book is the one that will most impress the oathtaker’s mind with the duty to comply with the oath. "
Now, I've read a lot of Praegers stuff a lot lately (thanks to MT's blog) and he is off base on almost everything he writes, in my nowhere near humble opinion. He is equally off base here. To ask me to swear on a bible would be equally akin to me asking you to consecrate your home with Mjolnir. The bible holds absolutely no reverence or importance to me. Just as I would not expect you to hold Mjolnir in any form of reverence or holiness if you were a christian. As I have said many many times before, faith is personal. You cannot force anyone to believe or not believe the way you do. I would love to hear other opinions on this subject.
V
9 Comments:
There is one glaring problem with both arguments. Members of the House of Representatives don't swear in on any book.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/30/koran-bible-prager-ellison/
Sorry, corrected link -
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/30/koran-bible-prager-ellison/
OK, that's funny. Remind me to check my sources sources from now on. LOL.
right the book is symbolic only, and while i am not up in arms about this debate i do recognize the Bible as a primary source from whence our American values are based and therefore why its more relevant as a symbol than say Beowulf, but if someone felt strongly about bringing Beowulf i would have no problem if he or she did so, but substituting Beowulf for the Bible seems divisive given the role of the Bible in our nations history
here is more thoughts from another well known conservative
http://michaelmedved.townhall.com/blog/g/6a3b8b2f-4418-4b9d-b7c2-60402ffeb794
The above is well written and well thought out. Gotta agree with him in every point he's made refuting Praeger's rant. As my original post shows.
I respect true conservatives. When I have problems is when the neo-conservative elements, like the Project for a New American Century, spew forth their disrespectful, authoritarian docterine (Good book, "conservatives without concience"). Medved clearly does not fall into the neo-con camp. I'm not so certain about Praeger.
V
Great posting. Regardless of whether they use a religious book or not is irrelevant, essentially. Yes, Prager made up this story as a smear attempt, but the true issue lies in the religious intolerence that is consuming the time of our elected officials. The fact that this was such a controversy is what is sad to me. No, the country was not founded on Christian principles. It was founded on the basis of religious freedom. Somewhere after 3rd grade history, the radicals of our country have forgotten about that.
For the record, I don't care what he puts his hand on when he is sworn in. I'm much more concerned with this:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53241
No offense, but I don't trust WorldNetDaily. First, they don't even realize that there (as noted by robb) NO oath on a book for congressmen.
Second, they make massive assumptions about what he said to the NAIF conference, which they admit has provided no transcripts. The only quote in the ENTIRE article that can even be remotely attributed to him is ""Imams must be able to provide Muslims with the proper guidance and educate them on the etiquettes [sic] of any political involvement within the Islamic context," the program says. "Questions also arise on whether imams and Islamic centers should be involved in politics at all and what the extent of this involvement should be." "
Kinda bland quote really.
Next, there ARE tons of quotes from people who either founded the organization or are affiliated with it. The attempt here is to obviously say because THEY feel this way, Ellison does to. Yet there is no evidence of that. It would be akin to me saying that Fred Phelps thinks "God Hates Fags" and he's a fundementalist christian... so anyone affilitated with fundamentalist christians must think "God Hates Fags." Thats just plain wrong, and it's what the article clearly is trying to portray.
The fact remains, the man was elected by the citizens of Minnesotta. Until he violates his oath (to the Constitution, WITHOUT a book), he deserves some modicum of respect. And that is woefully in short supply in the American political system.
V
-The above is just a stream of conciousness... please forgive spelling and grammar. :) I ask no forgiveness for the thoughts though.
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